Jane Monheit is an up-and-coming voice in the world of American standards. Joss Stone has one of the best set of pipes I’ve ever heard applied to soul music, and strong interpretive skills. Fiona Apple is a kickass songwriter with a jazzy sensibility and a rich voice. Sheryl Crow is an uneven singer, but a creative, quirky, and fascinating songwriter with a unique style. What do they all have in common?
They are all gorgeous. They are babes. They have clean, even, symmetrical features, gorgeous smiles, bitchen bods, and shampoo-commercial hair.
This disturbs me.
I am not, heavens no, disturbed by the sight of beautiful women. Nor am I disturbed by the knowledge that being pretty helps you get ahead. It’s just that the field is so skewed.
There just aren’t any less-than-babelicious popular (rock, jazz, dance, soul, standards) female singers. Not. Any. This isn’t news, although the advent of music videos has made it worse. (I recall Joan Osbourne saying how it pissed her off that every time she went to the gym to work on her tone for videos or photo shoots she was taking time away from practicing the guitar.) But it’s no less distressing for being old hat, and it deserves examination.
You and I can think of gorgeous male singers. We can also think of butt ugly fugly ug ug ugly ones. (Joe Jackson. I rest my case.) Can you think of even slightly unattractive, even kinda ‘off,’ women?
See, I know lots of people. Many of whom are women. Among those women, many are pretty and some, while I love their looks, wouldn’t make it on TV. Among those women, some are outstanding singers or songwriters or both. But the overlap isn’t 100%.
Like I said, it’s not news that unattractive (or attractive but not Hollywood-perfect) women can’t get ahead in the patriarchy. But think about this: Some of the best singers: The. Best. Singers, are singers you’ve never heard and will never hear. Because they’re not pretty enough. They’re not pretty for your eyes so your ears are denied the pleasure. You and I are not getting the best musical bang for our buck, only the prettiest.
I think Joss Stone rocks. But it pisses me off that there might be someone out there way better than Joss Stone, but fat and with a crooked nose, and I’ll never hear her. And if there’s a better example of how the patriarchy denies quality of life to even the most privileged, in even the smallest of ways, I don’t know what it is.
-Janis Joplin
-Cass Eliot (who problably looked the closest to every girl next door).
-Joan Jett (I remember “pimple face” on the Jersy coast at the Fountain Casino before she got famous and nothing about her was easy on the eye. Yea, they had the 2 drink minimum for a reason)
-Frank Zappa (Enough said)
-Mick Jagger (kin to Frank so see above)
-Meatloaf(before he was big, while he was big, and after he was big)
-Steve Martin
There has been some seriously questionable folks on stage both talent wise and looks wise. Although better looking folks are easier on the eye, record lables dont’ look for that. They look for folks who are talented but very stupid in the business sense and just plain willing to do anything to “make the big time”. Folks who are business savy all go off to make their own labels, or movies like Madonna, (and the folks above) etc.
I find it appalling that people ACTUALLY look at the stage, movie screens, magazines, or TV’s for their personal validations, or inspirational role models. Can you imagine waking up one morning and wishing you were just like Tammy Fae Baker?
Whole lives are lived by folks who are no-bodies. Life as a no-body is pretty dull and uneventful. Your people can’t call up my people to “go do lunch”. On the other hand, You can find me down at the local “Jack in the Crap” chowin down an Ultimate Cheeze Food substance Burger when ever I can find the time to frekkin eat something. You can just sit down and converse. Cranky will be happy to impart his cynical opinion unto all that is willing to hear. No frekkin appointment needed.
Listen up ladies. A smart man will never answer, “Does this dress make my ass look big?”; “Do you think she is prettier than me?”; (and if they really are smart and looking to survive the bonus round); “How old do you think I am?”.
Yea, I take solice in knowing that I am still 15. 15 stone that is, and not years old.
Cass, Joplin, Jett: Neither you nor I can come up with a less-than-attractive woman who has come up in the music biz in the past TWENTY YEARS. And yet you can say Although better looking folks are easier on the eye, record lables dont’ look for that. Come on! It’s not a coincidence, y’know.
More ugly men: Steve Miller, Jim Kerr, Ray Davies, whatshisname from the Spin Doctors (looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo). That freakazoid (though I love him) who fronts Counting Crows.
And for women? Still only Joplin, Cass, Jett.
So I stand by my opinion that it’s a feminist issue.
I’m thinking not. I do think that folks who have lower self-esteem issues to work through definitely would not do well on any music circuit. They wouldn’t do well in any industry that has a highly fickle, ever ebbing tide of opinion. As a result, that gene pool tends to be shallow.
There is the occasionally woman these days that wants to go to Hollywood to make it big, but from my conversations with the normal minions of life, they are just happy if the bastard they’re married to (or dating) takes out the trash.
So if it’s not a of lack of opportunity issue, but a lack of initiative, drive, and motivation, my question would be “How is that still a feminists issue?” Sound alot like a lack of participation to me.
It’s a mistake just looking at the people we know. The people we know are self-selected to be kinda like ourselves. They’re never statistically random.
Postulate:
1) Statistically, talent is distributed evenly in the population.
2) Beauty is distributed evenly in the population.
3) The overlap between group 1 and 2 is random. Being good-looking is not more or less likely to make you talented. Therefore…
4) There are as many talented attractive people as talented unattractive people.
BUT
5) We only, or almost only, see talented attractive women succeed.
It’s not explained by statistically random distribution, therefore there’s something up.
FURTHERMORE
There are more talented unattractive males succeeding in the music industry than talented unattractive females.
It’s not random. Therefore SOMETHING IS UP.
What’s up? Is your conclusion that unattractiveness is likely to give you low self-esteem, and therefore make you compete less? I see no evidence of that, but if so, it affects women disproportionately, and so it’s still a product of the patriarchy.
If it’s not a self-esteem issue caused by unattractiveness, then something else makes unattractive women succeed less than attractive women, and this only (or mostly) affects women.
How not? The population sample is there right in front of anyone who wants to flip through album covers.
I think the operative key word here is “see”.
Statistics can be manipulated by what ever cause or faction looking for whatever result.
It’s my conclusion that low self-esteem is low self-esteem. The ugly ones get it more often than the pretty one because through out life, the good looking ones have their esteem re-enforced or bolstered in positive ways more often than the ugly ones.
I work in the computer industry, and I am here to assure you that in rooms of 300 or 400 tech support folks, only a handful (and i mean a small handful) would be classed as “good looking”. The majority would range from normal, run of the mill average to down right obese and “fugly”. Yup, there’s a reason most hide behind a computer screen and keyboard.
So what’s the point? If only a handful of people are good-looking, why is it that every woman currently at the top of the singer or singer-songwriter food chain is pretty, whereas many but not all men in that position are good-looking? Doesn’t that establish that women are disproportionately affected?
Not at all. I’m thinking that you perseive that as being true, and so hense that it is. My point that I was making is that there is a lot of successful folks behind keyboards, camera’s or whatever and not one of them is seen.
Well, that proves my point, doesn’t it? If the only less-than-beautiful women who succeed in women are those who are not seen, yet less-than-handsome men are allowed to be seen, then the double-standard is firmly in place.
Yea…ok…..alrighty then……
Wait…are we saying that Steve Martin isn’t talented or isn’t attractive? ‘Cause I’m not going to agree with either.
Putting on an arrow on to one’s head, in my opinion, is not talent. Silly? Certainly! Comical in certain situations? Probably. A talent to be remembered along with Mozart, Picasso, or Shakespeare? He’s not even worthy to wash their feet.
Feminism is defined as “the movement aimed at equal rights for women”. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of “Sex, Religion, or Color” (and in some parts of the country, even Sexual Orientation). Butt-Ass Ugly just doesn’t qualify. Not in the housing sector, job sector, or any other sector. Now does it happen? Yes. Pretty people get noticed first. Plain and simple. Does that make them successful? Certainly not. It’s human nature for folks to surround themselves with beauty, and enlightened individuals will look for the hidden beauty in things even when it’s not obvious. In some cases, one might have to really look damn hard to find it too, and even then it might turn into an all day project! If you ever have described someone with the words, “they have a wonderful personality”, what are you truly saying about them? I had a friend of mine who would specifically look for women who were “of larger stature”, or less “visually appealing”. He claimed “he never slept alone at nights, they provided heat in the winter, shade in the summer, were grateful, and they were willing to go that extra mile cause they didn’t get many offers”.
Statically, women make up 87% of the clientele of the plastic surgery industry. Men are going that route too, more and more. See http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Cosmetic/story?id=1462958 for more on that. If I had the money, I would do the tummy tuck, and would maybe shave off a few years. I don’t – so won’t. It really chafes the women libbers asses that they did all of that bra burning for nothing or next to nothing.
Today’s women are finding it tougher and tougher to find mates, or even play dates. The old days of just “looking good” don’t make it any more. Today’s modern woman doesn’t want the traditional roles that they held in the household, nor in the work place so what are they looking for? If they don’t want to have children, cook, clean, laundry, teach the young, provide financial substance, or at least some sort of personal responsibility to the household….why the hell should they be around? For what purpose or what are today’s women putting on the table? Men have caught on to that fact. Today’s men have one hand on their rubbers, and the other on their wallets, and guard both with their lives if their smart. The dumb ones end up in court one way or another. I know this to be true as I have several women friends who are single and they point blank tell me that the first couple of dates is almost like a job interview.
The bottom line is “Ff they got it like that, why not?” I say more power to them.
Feminism is a social movement. Part of the feminist movement is changing laws, but not all. That treating people differently based on beauty is legal is not my point (and I never suggested it). Understanding the social implications of how people treat one another, and how that changes based on gender, is an important part of feminism.
Feminism, as you say, is about equal treatment for genders. We have established that ugly women are afforded fewer opportunities than ugly men. If the opportunity is unequal, it is by definition a feminist issue. What’s the problem?
Bra burning, by the way, is an urban legend.
My point exactly, there is no problem. This is a percieved conceptional issue that outside of this little blog has no merit, or substance. In fact, outside of the United States, this doesnt even warrant attention at all. Doubt you could even get the ACLU to champion this cause and they will champion just about anything.
this discussion comes from a very small margin of the global population and therefore creates a limited perspective. Most of the population of this world can barely feed their families and when it comes to survival, beauty isn’t much of an issue as much as health and being able bodied.
North Americans are immature. We allow big business and the entertainment industry define our values. We then whine and complain about this but are too lazy and fat to do anything about it; nor do we really want to. We complain about not being able to find truffle oil at a good price or that we’re so inconvienced because we have to sit in rush hour traffic in our luxury cars. The rest of the world deals with real concerns such as children being forced into slavery at the age of 4 to make the colourful rugs you by at Pier 1 Imports in order to help feed their families while becoming blind and suffering from back disorders by the age of 10.
If looking at beautiful celebrities causes insecurities then remove the problem; turn off the tv. Here are two good books that you can read instead of watching useless shows like American Idol.
Don’t get too comfortable : [the indignities of coach class, the torments of low thread count, the never-ending quest for artisanal olive oil and other first world problems] by David Rakoff.
In Praise of Slow: How a Worldwide Movement Is Challenging the Cult of Speed by Carl Honore
My point exactly, there is no problem. This is a percieved conceptional issue that outside of this little blog has no merit, or substance.
There is a social problem; that something is conceptual and extra-legal doesn’t make it non-existant. That it can’t be solved by a lawsuit doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. “This little blog” from time to time addresses feminist, social, interpersonal, spiritual, and other issues that this little author considers to have merit.
It’s kind of silly for you to call it “perceived” and without “substance” when the whole thing is based on a numeric analysis of a population; an analysis you agree with.
In fact, outside of the United States, this doesnt even warrant attention at all. Doubt you could even get the ACLU to champion this cause and they will champion just about anything.
I discuss all sorts of things that are only of issue in the U.S. A couple of weeks ago I discussed Samuel Alito and you didn’t criticize my “little blog” for being concerned only with the United States.
Thank the Gods for the ACLU! They champion issues that can be resolved by Constitutional law. Of course, there are issues in this country that have nothing to do with Constitutional law, which is why people are allowed to have discussions about issues along a wide continuum.
Most of the population of this world can barely feed their families and when it comes to survival, beauty isn’t much of an issue as much as health and being able bodied.
And again, that doesn’t make it a non-issue. There are more worthy issues than any of us can shake a single stick at. Poverty, hunger, healthcare, these are vitally important. But if we only discuss The Vital Issues we’d be bored, depressed, and aggravated. The world is open to a wide range of discussions, including Social Security, HIV, this week’s magazine covers, what I had for breakfast, music, art, bride-burning, population control…all worthy of discussion if two or more people care to sit down and jaw about it.
The rest of the world deals with real concerns such as children being forced into slavery at the age of 4 to make the colourful rugs you by at Pier 1 Imports in order to help feed their families while becoming blind and suffering from back disorders by the age of 10.
And if you were working at resolving those issues 24/7 you wouldn’t have time to read a blog topic about beauty in the music industry. But none of us can do big issues all the time, and all issues can be fertile ground for growth and awareness.
If looking at beautiful celebrities causes insecurities then remove the problem; turn off the tv. Here are two good books that you can read instead of watching useless shows like American Idol.
Oddly enough, I was discussing music, not TV. Frankly, it’s obnoxious to come here and critique my supposed television-watching habits, about which I did not post, and about which you know nothing. I’m a writer for fuxake, I don’t need to be told to read books!
The only less-than-attractive female musicians I can think of that are current is Missy Elliot and Courtney Love. I’m going to guess that this trend is do to ageism as well as sexism. The music industry gears itself to teens, not just because they buy a lot of music, but because they buy all the secondary crap too. IE calenders, videos, jewelry, t-shirts, posters, etc.
While I think having “the look” definitely helps getting through the door and getting a break, having talent is usually neccessay to stay in the biz. (Ignore Britany Spears for the moment.)
You asked for participation. So I am participating.
I think defending the f-uglies is a great project, but it’s hardly worthy of representation from the “League of Justice”. Claiming it to be a “women’s issue” is just demeaning to all women everywhere. There are plenty of bonified issues that could be taking up valuable blog space, and causing folks to think, and discuss possible solutions besides this topic who’s only benefit is having women (and possibly one or two guys) look in their mirror and say to themselves, “Gee…I really am fat AND ugly.” What’s next? You going after the Victoria Secret’s Fashion show? Bad enough sponsors moved the Miss America Contest to Las Vegas. (Although it made perfectly good sense to find so many tight little oasis’s in the middle of a desert to provide comfort for all those weary travelers.)
The reality of it is that I am tired of hearing about crap like this when folks, who are in a position to actually get things accomplished, waste it on nonsensical junk like this. I’m not saying save the world either. Nothing is stopping you from using your influence to start a fund and collect for it. Use it to send a poor bastard off to the clinic once a year for a free aids test or mam-o-gram or both if needed. Hell, you could probably find a doctor or two that would help defray most of the costs just for the PR. Probably wouldn’t hurt your book publishing PR either.
LOL @ Britney Spears. You’re right, Courtney Love: Not a Pretty Girl (sorry Ani). And you’re probably right about ageism as well.
wow. here I was, one of your biggest supporters and often mention your books on my blog. At the moment I have your Way of Four book sitting on my desk here at work. My response was in general to everyone that had commented.
Clearly I was mistaken as to your maturity to handle comments from readers of your blog and your work. This opens my eyes and I will remove my recommendations for your books on my blogs.
There are plenty of bonified issues that could be taking up valuable blog space
And this is totally disingenuous. Why come after me about this when you don’t tell me to stop wasting “valuable blog space” on pictures of my kittens, or movie reviews, or funny things Arthur says, or Blogthing polls?
this topic who’s only benefit is having women (and possibly one or two guys) look in their mirror and say to themselves, “Gee…I really am fat AND ugly.???
I can’t imagine anyone looking at this topic and thinking that’s the purpose. Guess I wasn’t imagining you. 😉 The purpose is to make an observation about the way that women and men are treated unequally, and the way that treatment may be diminishing the quality of the music to which we listen. Which is what I said when I posted it.
Nothing is stopping you from using your influence to start a fund and collect for it. Use it to send a poor bastard off to the clinic once a year for a free aids test or mam-o-gram or both if needed.
You are, of course, fully aware of how I spend my time, what causes I collect what amount of money on, and exactly what I’d be doing if I wasn’t doing this.
Get real. Again, if you’re so concerned that I’m wasting my life, taking pictures of kittens and trying to figure out why they don’t upload properly is both more time-consuming and more frivolous than discussing women’s issues. Yet, rather than complain about my compulsive kittenism, you actually help me. So whatever bug you have up your ass about this topic, it’s not your altruism that motivates it.
Actually, I don’t care one way or another. I know men and women are not equals. Never will be. The world would be a very scary place if that ever occurred. A society totaly devoid of personalities, sex, money, or culture could bring about such a creatures, I suppose. Not sure I ever want to see that. Besides, I havent ever busted you balls in the couple years that I have known you. I will leave you alone for another couple of years now.
wow. here I was, one of your biggest supporters and often mention your books on my blog. At the moment I have your Way of Four book sitting on my desk here at work. My response was in general to everyone that had commented.
Clearly I was mistaken as to your maturity to handle comments from readers of your blog and your work. This opens my eyes and I will remove my recommendations for your books on my blogs.
It’s true that being honest, and even bitchy sometimes, carries a risk. It’s also true that I approved your posts and didn’t delete them. This one stands right here for everyone to see. What’s the point of a blog without disagreement?
Besides, I havent ever busted you balls in the couple years that I have known you. I will leave you alone for another couple of years now.
My point, and I do have one, for both you and Sonja, is not that you shouldn’t criticize. It’s about the larger question, which is, what about this post is so much more profoundly worthy of criticism than the other stuff I write?
No one told me I was wasting my time when I should be saving the world instead when I spent all gorram morning finding pictures of every cast member of Casino Royale. So if THIS and only this chaps your ass, it’s interesting to ask why. At least to me.
And I’m sorry if that offends either or both of you. But I don’t post about things I don’t think are interesting, even if they irritate the piss out of other people.
To be honest, it’s was your damn insistance that you were right and that this was an issue for all women everywhere to take a stand for. That’s the only thing that will usually get me on a soap box. FYI-Here is what the billboard top 160 female artists of all time. Some I dont agree with but hey, there must be a reason why they think that they were the tops of all time.
1. Janis Joplin
2. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane)
3. Ann Wilson (Heart)
4. Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac)
5. Tina Turner
6. Pat Benatar
7. Debbie Harry (Blondie)
8. Annie Lennox (Eurythmics)
9. Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth)
10. Joni Mitchell
11. Chrissie Hynde (The Pretenders)
12. Patti Smith
13. Melissa Etheridge
14. Bjork
15. Nico (Velevet Underground)
16. Alanis Morrisette
17. P. J. Harvey
18. Kate Bush
19. Tarja Turunen (Nightwish)
20. Ani Difranco
21. Delores O’Riordan (Cranberries)
22. Shirley Manson (Garbage)
23. Patty Smyth (Scandal)
24. Rickie Lee Jones
25. Sandy Denny
26. Martha Davis (Motels)
27. Fiona Apple
28. Meredith Brooks
29. Christina Scabbia (Lacuna Coil)
30. Tanya Donelly (Belly)
31. Liz Phair
32. Terri Nunn (Berlin)
33. Alannah Myles
34. Sheryl Crow
35. Exene Cervanka (X)
36. Suzi Quatro
37. Suzanne Vega
38. Debora Iyall (Romeo Void)
39. Kim Deal
40. Kat Bjelland (Babes In Toyland)
41. Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac)
42. Lita Ford
43. Joan Jett (Blackhearts)
44. Siouxsie Sioux (Siouxsie & the Banshees)
45. Skin (Skunk Anansie)
46. Brody Armstrong (The Distillers)
47. Karen O (Yeah Yeah Yeahs)
48. Gilly Smyth (Gong)
49. Kate Pierson (B52’s)
50. Jann Arden
51. Gwen Stefani (No Doubt)
52. Mary Margaret O’Hara
53. Lana Lane
54. Alison Moyet (Yaz)
55. Nina Gordon (Veruca Salt, Solo)
56. Maggie Bell
57. Annie Haslam(Renaissance)
58. Corinne Drewery (Swing Out Sister)
59. Beth Gibbons (Portishead)
60. Nina Hagen
61. Susanna Hoffs (Bangles)
62. Mia Zappata (Gits)
63. Nancy Wilson (Heart)
64. Melanie
65. Shawn Colvin
66. Doro Pesch (Warlock)
67. Jane Siberry
68. Nanci Griffith
69. Patty Griffin
70. Amanda Marshall
71. Joss Stone
72. Rita Coolidge
73. Linda Perry(4 Non Blondes)
74. Sas Jordan
75. Hope Sandoval (Mazzy Star)
76. Carrie Akre (Hammerbox)
77. Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses)
78. Harriet Wheeler (The Sundays)
79. Lee Aaron
80. Sarah Shannon (Velocity Girl)
81. Amy Lee (Evanescence)
82. Signe Anderson (Jefferson Airplane, ’65-’66)
83. Holly McNarland
84. Dorothy Moskowitz (United States Of America)
85. Jonnette Napolitano (Concrete Blonde)
86. Katrina Chester (Luxx)
87. Judy Henske
88. Annette Peacock
89. Maria Azevedo (Battery)
90. Patti Santos (It’s A Beautiful Day)
91. Laetitia Sadier (Stereolab)
92. Paula Cole
93. Jennifer Herrema (Royal Trux)
94. Margo Timmins (Cowboy Junkies)
95. Kim Richey
96. Jennifer Warnes
97. Candice Night (Blackmore’s Night)
98. Courtney Love (Hole)
99. Maria Mckee (Lone Justice, solo)
100. Avril Lavigne
101. Marianne Faithful
102. Heather Findlay (Mostly Autumn)
103. Dale Krantz (Rossington-Collins Band)
104. Kim Wilde
105. Wendy O. Williams (Plasmatics)
106. Joan Osborne
107. Christina Amphlett (Divinyls)
108. Tara MacLean
109. Carla Bonoff
110. Dominique Durand (Ivy)
111. Jane Jarboe (Swans)
112. Darby Mills (Headpins)
113. Leslie Rankine (Silverfish)
114. Amy Ray (Indigo Girls)
115. Emily Saliers (Indigo Girls)
116. Lynda Stipe (Hetch Hetchy)
117. Jennifer Rush
118. Pamela Moore
119. Dale Bozzio (Missing Persons)
120. Clare Torry (Pink Floyd-DSOTM)
121. Bif Naked
122. Georgia Hubley (Yo La Tengo)
123. Sharon den Adel (Within Temptation)
124. Kelly Hogan (Jody Grind)
125. Sandi Saraya (Saraya)
126. Justine Frischmann (Elastica)
127. Tracey Thorn (Everything But The Girl)
128. Isabel Monteiro (Drugstore)
129. Kirsty Hawkshaw
130. Alison Mosshart (AKA VV of The Kills)
131. Tobey Torres (Snake River Conspiracy)
132. Monique Powell (Save Ferris)
133. Lisa Gerrard (Dead Can Dance)
134. Teena Marie
135. Wendy Waldman
136. Anneli Marian Drecker (Bel Canto)
137. Tairrie B (My Ruin)
138. Mimi Goese (Hugo Largo)
139. Kim Shattuck (The Muffs)
140. Charlotte Martin
141. Louise Post (Veruca Salt)
142. Thalia Zedek (Live Skull)
143. Charlotte Hatherley (Ash)
144. Bonnie Bramlett
145. Melanie Campbell (Burning Brides)
146. Beth Orton
147. Angela Gossgow (Arch Enemy)
148. Dot Allison
149. Jenny Haan (Babe Ruth)
150. Kathleen Hanna (Le Tigre/Bikini Kill)
151. Ida No (Glass Candy & Shattered Theatre)
152. Nina C. Alice (Skew Siskin)
153. Ella Hooper (Killing Heidi)
154. D’Arcy Wretzky
155. Lucia Cafarelli (KMFDM)
156. Sandra Nasic (Guano Apes)
157. Sheila Nicholls
158. Corin Tucker (Sleater-Kinney)
159. Nellie Mckay
160. Suzi Gardner (L7)
I actually never said “it was an issue for all women everywhere to take a stand for.” Never said any of that. Never said take a stand. Never said all women. The only part I said was “issue.” I write about issues that concern me. That’s what makes me so interesting and quirky and fascinating and such. If it concerns someone else as well, that’s fine.
The part I insisted I was right about was the statistics. Now we have this nice chewy list (thanks) and if we compared it to a top male list, we could vote on the fugly vs. pretty on each, and find out if I really am right. WAY too much trouble but we could, so thanks for the list.
Here are the top 100 males:
1. Freddie Mercury (Queen)
2. Robert Plant (Led Zeppelin)
3. Chris Cornell (Soundgarden, Audioslave)
4. Ian Gillan (Deep Purple)
5. Steve Perry (Journey)
6. Jeff Buckley
7. Roger Daltrey (The Who)
8. Rob Halford (Judas Priest)
9. Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden)
10. Geoff Tate (Queensryche)
11. Elvis Presley
12. Mike Patton (Faith No More)
13. Roy Orbison
14. Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
15. Ronnie James Dio (Rainbow, Dio)
16. Jim Morrison (The Doors)
17. Little Richard
18. Joe Cocker
19. Layne Staley (Alice In Chains)
20. John Fogerty (CCR)
21. David Bowie
22. Carl Wilson (Beach Boys)
23. Dan McCafferty (Nazareth)
24. Maynard James Keenan (Tool, Perfect Circle)
25. Richard Manuel (The Band)
26. Paul Rodgers (Free, Bad Company)
27. Burton Cummings (The Guess Who)
28. Jimi Jamison (Survivor)
29. Brad Delp (Boston)
30. Paul McCartney (The Beatles)
31. Jerry Lee Lewis
32. Sebastian Bach (Skid Row)
33. Philip Anselmo (Pantera)
34. Michael Matijevic (Steelheart)
35. Axl Rose (Guns N Roses)
36. Steve Winwood
37. Mick Jagger (Rolling Stones)
38. Justin Hayward (Moody Blues)
39. Steven Tyler (Aerosmith)
40. Brian Wilson (Beach Boys)
41. Tim Buckley
42. Elton John
43. John Lennon (The Beatles)
44. Bono (U2)
45. Van Morrison
46. Billy Joel
47. Greg Lake (ELP, King Crimson)
48. Dennis DeYoung (Styx)
49. Jack Bruce (Cream)
50. Jon Anderson (Yes)
51. Roy Khan (Kamelot)
52. Peter Gabriel (Genesis)
53. Peter Cetera (Chicago)
54. David Coverdale (Whitesnake)
55. Steve Walsh (Kansas)
56. Rick Danko (The Band)
57. Sammy Hagar (Van Halen)
58. Elvis Costello
59. Klaus Meine (Scorpions)
60. David Gilmour (Pink Floyd)
61. Levon Helm (The Band)
62. Roger Waters (Pink Floyd)
63. Bruce Springsteen
64. Graham Bonnet (Rainbow)
65. Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull)
66. Eric Clapton
67. Ian Astbury (The Cult)
68. Art Garfunkel (Simon & Garfunkel)
69. Rod Stewart
70. Gregg Allman (Allman Brothers Band)
71. Lou Gramm (Foreigner)
72. Don Henley (The Eagles)
73. Michael Stipe (REM)
74. David Lee Roth (Van Halen)
75. Joe Elliot (Def Leppard)
76. Myles Kennedy (Alter Bridge)
77. Bob Seger
78. David Byron (Uriah Heep)
79. Mark Lanegan (Screaming Trees)
80. Robin Zander (Cheap Trick)
81. Don Mclean
82. John Wetton (King Crimson)
83. Nick Cave
84. Jimmy Gnecco (Ours)
85. Kevin Cronin (REO Speedwagon)
86. Eric Burdon (Animals)
87. Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode)
88. Brandon Boyd (Incubus)
89. Glenn Hughes (Deep Purple)
90. Steve Marriott (Humble Pie)
91. Russell Allen (Symphony X)
92. Thom Yorke (Radiohead)
93. Bon Scott (AC/DC)
94. Prince
95. Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon)
96. Sting (The Police)
97. Jeff Lynne (ELO)
98. Scott Weiland (Stone Temple Pilots)
99. Aaron Lewis (Staind)
100. Jon Bon Jovi (Bon Jovi)
ok I admit i skimmed. but one thing i noticed when I was a bartender was that gus could look any old way but the women needed to be hot.
there is still that criteria
Woo-ee Cranky Cronos! I sure hope that was a copy and paste, not typing!!
Barbs, yeah, that’s pretty much my point.
Damn straight. I take advantage of of technology. Opening up my own web blog. Move over foamy squirrel, Cranky is just about to get started…
http://www.crankycronos.com
In case you hadn’t noticed the record industry is a BUSINESS. These young nubile artificially pretty girls with artificially enhanced vocals who are videographed at exaggerated camera angles to play up the plastic surgery that they had at 14 yrs. old are MARKETED to the public. Just like any other PRODUCT. Yes, they are picked at random from talent line-ups at malls and modeling agencies(who are in the BEAUTY MARKETING BUSINESS) from a sea of girls who will imminently have their self-esteem crushed by some WOMAN IN HER LATE FIFTIES with a clipboard and a Virginia Slims hanging out of her pursed lips after they aren’t picked and are truly equally as pretty and whose parents may have more invested in talent lessons of every kind than the actual “winner” of the audition. Ask me how I know! Life isn’t fair! Period.
It is much easier to find one of these “misty-eyed hopeful” girls with this method than it is to go out to legitimate children’s theatres, dance recitals and churches, etc. Do you think that anyone is asking the board of directors of the Newport Music Festival or the vice president of the Business Commitee for the Arts in NY who should be the next Gwen Stefani?
After many years of working behind the scenes in the theatre and modeling world, I can tell you that the way this done will NOT change any time soon. The business of making the product that these young people become, or that many other smarter performers make themselves into, is a very subjective one designed to MAKE MONEY…and it is the young pretty little lemmings that run full speed over the edge to be picked for fame and stardom that contribute to the “talent/attractiveness iniquity” . Believe me, there are more where they came from and the entertainment industry knows it and takes advantage of the ease with which they can do the job of choosing the next size 3 blonde-du-jour. It is not that the less than attractive girls aren’t being picked, many actually are in musical fields that require study and dedication and they are not as concerned with whether they are competing for air time with Christine Aguillera as they are perfecting their music so that they know they are accomplished at their art and know they deserve it when they are recognized for it. Your objection to “pretty singers”is a subjective one, unfortunately as subjective as the slimy talent scouts with the record companies’ bucks to spend on creating a product from, what I will agree, is literally nothing. But it is the way of this business and can’t be changed by any political action or feminist protestations.
Bellamatrix, I appreciate your comments. I certainly think we can all agree that the motivation is money.
But I think people misunderstand me when they think I blogged this in hopes of creating some sort of political action. One very worthwhile “political action,” in my view, is discussion. By discussion we gain insight, we perceive the invisible.
When you live in a culture, it’s easy to treat conditions of that culture as “normal.” Fish never feel wet, they say. Just so, it’s easy not to notice various aspects of our culture, of sexism, of racism, of privilege, of whatever we’re discussing, unless we discuss it.
The purpose for blogging about something like this is to notice the water. To “raise consciousness” if you will. If I thought I had the power to transform the music industry, I certainly wouldn’t imagine the way to go about it would be blogging.
I don’t disagree that it’s far more likely that an attractive woman break into the music business today than an “ugly” woman, but I would suggest that there are many background issues involved… I would also suggest that most of the “fugly” men in rock – with the possible exception of “The Walrus of Love”, Barry White – made their first impression not as solo artists but as members of bands. Can anyone think of a butt-ugly male rock singer who broke through as a solo artist in the last 20 years?
Why is the history of rock bands almost exclusively male? I don’t know – off the top of my head I’d say that it stems from the protective practices of families and fathers… teenage boys can go off and hang in groups, play in garage bands, play gigs in bars, go on the road… but girls need to be protected from those rowdy environments. Sure, there are the exceptions… the Bonnie Raitt’s of the world, but they *are* the exception rather than the rule. And yes, it is a feminist issue.
But I wouldn’t consider the Indigo Girls exceptionally attractive in the “model” sense, nor Tracy Chapman, and I suppose that India Arie, Eryka Badu, and Jill Scott may be considered attractive by some…
And I’ve always thought Mick Jagger was one of the ugliest men I’ve ever seen, but for 40 years women have been throwing panties at him on stage!
Mick Jagger’s got my panties, actually(visualize red-cheeked grin). I was throwing them at Charlie Watts but I missed.